risen:
> wj25czxj47bu6q (M):
>> <@_xmpp_theanonymousejoker=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> There are proponents who are sitting, eager to malign image of Fdroid build system in the name of security, only to tarnish privacy and anonymity efforts, and push Play Store as better.
>> People know no better than "there is play store and unknown app stores", and so this public notion is misused to allow to pull down legs of Fdroid
>
> Is it so wrong to want better security? Who is criticizing F-Droid's efforts to promote privacy and anonymity? What are you on about?
How long have you been here? Or those are rhetorical, or bait?
Dec 1 17:21
jp:
dude chill
Dec 1 17:22
SkewedZeppelin:
Plz
Dec 1 17:26
Can't y'all be nice to each other for more than a few hours?
Dec 1 17:27
Goes for everyone
regarding a distinct muc for less DivestOS related bits I'll consider it
for as active as this room is it also goes modestly long period of silence
all important news will always be on the website
and I'd hope everyone here has notifications off or mention only
Dec 1 17:47
I kind of wanted to make a general tech room, but I don't really want to encroach onto the other tech/security/privacy mucs
risen:
> SkewedZeppelin:
> all important news will always be on the website
Remind me again if it has RSS or something?
Dec 1 17:55
Jk
After adding a new user, where can you find their files, with adb?
Dec 1 18:31
I want to copy apks from owner to user or from PC
Dec 1 18:33
...
matchboxbananasynergy!:
There's the "install available apps" option for moving apps from owner to other profiles
but idk if DOS has that
Dec 1 18:55
...
Tommy:
oh yeah right right
I totally forgot
Dec 1 19:25
im soooo tired im dumber than usual xd
...
theanonymousejoker:
> Is it so wrong to want better security? Who is criticizing F-Droid's efforts to promote privacy and anonymity? What are you on about?
wj25czxj47bu6q (M): there is no wrong in wanting better security but when the same "security" promoters tell everyone to believe in closed source blackbox security, it is better to maintain skepticism.
> Please read the entire conversation before commenting.
I read.
> If you don't trust Google, go use an iPhone. Simple as that. Android Open Source Project is Google code and a much easier vector for a backdoor than anything hardware-level.
Nice partisan bullshittery. Please pedal it outside of decent FOSS and privacy communities.
Dec 1 20:11
CEO of censorship Tommy has requested a ban for me twice in the past 24 hours. How is this bully behaviour permitted?
Dec 1 20:13
Tommy:
he has nothing technical to contribute (he barely knows who anything works), he constantly insults each other, throw constant anti google non-sense and pretends that he represents the foss community or whatever
Dec 1 20:14
SkewedZeppelin:
Tommy, if I ban them they'll just come back with an alt if they don't already have one in here
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_SkewedZeppelin=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Tommy, if I ban them they'll just come back with an alt if they don't already have one in here
usually we have the policy of just straight up banning any alt when they talk
they can come in with an alt and idle you shouldn't care
Dec 1 20:15
SkewedZeppelin:
I've only had to ban two people here so far and that was just crypto spam
theanonymousejoker:
I participate with only one username across internet, unlike the above user who has record of using alts.
Tommy:
but seriously lets not allow for this non-sense spamming in this chat
it derails the convo
irritates people
SkewedZeppelin:
how about that^
theanonymousejoker, I won't ban you or anyone else unless you're really egregious
but can we all please stop talking about the meta of the chat or its participants?
Dec 1 20:16
Tommy:
he's never going to stop, this is a well-known trouble maker
sooner or later he will literally shill huawei phones and the like
SkewedZeppelin:
I don't want to have to make the room strictly topical and only give some users chat permissions
theanonymousejoker:
Ask Tommy why he keeps throwing these triggers
See yourself ^
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tommy:
and you have to consider that he will feed some new comers bullshit advice and harm them in the process
wj25czxj47bu6q:
> Nice partisan bullshittery. Please pedal it outside of decent FOSS and privacy communities.
It's partisan because the issue *is* partisan. If Google was out to backdoor you/any specific person, or as many people as possible… in all of those cases it's easier to build the backdoor at a software level into AOSP or potentially Google Play Services. Hardware engineering is much more difficult and necessarily gets seen by many more eyes, thus increasing the likelihood of being blocked from ever going out the door.
Dec 1 20:17
Please understand:
/me
theanonymousejoker:
wj25... do you understand or have even once read one SIGINT paper of US government apparatus?
Dec 1 20:19
SkewedZeppelin:
Please cut the shit out
Dec 1 20:20
wj25czxj47bu6q:
👆️
theanonymousejoker:
Have you seen the history of Cisco, Qualcomm, Netgear, Intel and so on and their high degree of involvement wrt government backdooring? Wikileaks leak is insanely famous for this, and you can read the documents too.
SkewedZeppelin:
theanonymousejoker: this is offtopic
Dec 1 20:21
Tommy:
🤡
Dec 1 20:23
theanonymousejoker:
Its well within the context of "the issue *is* partisan [...] easier to build the backdoor at a software level" kind of discussion. When this kind of discussion happens, it is automatically given that the threat model is very high.
SkewedZeppelin:
If I say it is offtopic, it is offtopic
This ain't a democracy
theanonymousejoker:
Generally, DivestOS, GrapheneOS, CalyxOS and so on are AOSP forks with a more tame threat model. So if the limitation of threat model in this chat is a more tame level, that is okay and understandable.
Dec 1 20:24
Tommy:
🫡
> <@_xmpp_theanonymousejoker=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Generally, DivestOS, GrapheneOS, CalyxOS and so on are AOSP forks with a more tame threat model. So if the limitation of threat model in this chat is a more tame level, that is okay and understandable.
non-sense
theanonymousejoker:
This chat can remain confined to tamer threat models. I usually talk more scalable stuff which I can avoid for this chat.
Dec 1 20:25
matchboxbananasynergy!:
Lol
Dec 1 20:27
Tommy:
🤡
Dec 1 20:28
anyhow back to the *actually useful* convo
by default CORP COEP and COOP == allow all
so you need to set it to deny
so you need to set it to same origin
by default CORP COEP and COOP == allow all from anywhere
Dec 1 20:29
...
Poison Ivy:
> <@_xmpp_theanonymousejoker=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> This chat can remain confined to tamer threat models. I usually talk more scalable stuff which I can avoid for this chat.
Lmfao
Dec 1 20:50
People with the most extreme threat models use GrapheneOS
Dec 1 20:51
Not Calyx, not Divest, and especially not Linux phone or whatever you are thinking of
Dec 1 20:52
matchboxbananasynergy!:
Please let's not feed them
morti:
Please make it stop, the cringe is unbearable :D
Dec 1 20:53
wj25czxj47bu6q:
👆️
Tommy:
😄
Dec 1 21:20
...
theanonymousejoker:
> People with the most extreme threat models use GrapheneOS
Poison Ivy: people with the most extreme OPSEC never discuss it with others, especially GrapheneOS types of people
Source: I have pals that use HAM, have not used JS since a decade and so on
Dec 1 23:07
SkewedZeppelin:
offtopic
> types of people
this is not the place for attacks like this
Dec 1 23:09
theanonymousejoker:
Why was Poison Ivy not offtopic when making that remark?
The 4-5 bashing comments that followed looked offtopic too
Dec 1 23:10
SkewedZeppelin:
two other people already said to stop
to them
again
this devolves back into the meta of it
stop
I've repeatedly asked you nicely
theanonymousejoker:
> Please let's not feed them
> Please make it stop, the cringe is unbearable :D
Does not look like a call to stop, instead targeted insults
Dec 1 23:11
theanonymousejoker:
They will do it continuously because I exist here, and will never stop, when I reply it becomes a wrong act
Dec 1 23:12
SkewedZeppelin:
you're still talking about it
theanonymousejoker:
Ask them to stop the ban calls and the trolling
Dec 1 23:13
SkewedZeppelin:
I already did
> but can we all please stop talking about the meta of the chat or its participants?
Dec 1 23:14
theanonymousejoker:
They did not stop.
SkewedZeppelin:
because y'all keep bickering back and forth senselessly
Dec 1 23:15
theanonymousejoker:
Not me, they are like a circus that provides wood for bonfire, throws the firestick and also dance around it, all by themselves
SkewedZeppelin:
stop
talking
about
this
...
risen:
I was away. Tl;Dr. Anybody answer easy question on adb and accounts?
Dec 1 23:30
Feels like a pack of wild dogs in here BTW, just skimming
Dec 1 23:32
SkewedZeppelin:
risen unclear
...
risen, https://android.stackexchange.com/a/221534
Dec 1 23:34
risen:
> SkewedZeppelin:
> risen, https://android.stackexchange.com/a/221534
Seems to say the most secure device is one you don't use? Or, you can't do it.
Dec 1 23:43
wj25czxj47bu6q:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> I was away. Tl;Dr. Anybody answer easy question on adb and accounts?
The answer is that you _can't_ without root
strcat:
just use MTP
risen:
Adb worked well until now
Dec 1 23:45
risen:
> strcat:
> just use MTP
SkewedZeppelin: you asked them not to message me
Dec 1 23:46
SkewedZeppelin:
hm, I did, but at the same time they are answering your question
Dec 1 23:47
wj25czxj47bu6q:
risen, can you not just mute/ignore strcat in your client?
Dec 1 23:48
risen:
wj25czxj47bu6q (M): It has been considered.
Dec 1 23:49
...
matchboxbananasynergy!: The primary reason I took Gos off my phone is the human element, nothing technical. While I was trying GrapheneOS for the first time, strcat attacked me personally, here, in a manner that appeared almost entirely irrational, IMO.
Dec 2 00:00
strcat:
after spending months/years attacking GrapheneOS here and making some particularly outrageous claims about it recently leading to me coming here and responding
Dec 2 00:03
risen:
> strcat:
> after spending months/years attacking GrapheneOS here and making some particularly outrageous claims about it recently leading to me coming here and responding
Bullshit
Dec 2 00:06
wj25czxj47bu6q:
Can we please have constructive discussions in here? As SkewedZeppelin already said:
> but can we all please stop talking about the meta of the chat or its participants?
Dec 2 00:08
Stop the petty mudslinging
Dec 2 00:09
matchboxbananasynergy!:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> matchboxbananasynergy!: The primary reason I took Gos off my phone is the human element, nothing technical. While I was trying GrapheneOS for the first time, strcat attacked me personally, here, in a manner that appeared almost entirely irrational, IMO.
I don't understand why you tagged me with this, and I'm not interested in whatever you're trying to achieve. Is anybody going to respect the project this room is built around?
All I saw was strcat talk about technical things right now and you just decided to talk shit about him again. Not a good look. Settle down and stick to the topic, jesus
Tad has been extremely generous to everybody here. Stop abusing that
Dec 2 00:15
And before you decide to turn this into a long drawn-out conversation; I'm not interested
Dec 2 00:16
risen:
matchboxbananasynergy!: We talked civilly on technical aspects of updates. I held back telling you my full opinion until the rules were broken just now.
Dec 2 00:18
matchboxbananasynergy!:
When you're ready for another civil discussion, I'm happy to participate, but I'm not interested in anything else
Dec 2 00:19
risen:
Neither am I, so stop any time now.
Dec 2 00:20
Zesty Zipper:
🍿
Dec 2 00:24
Tommy:
he has nothing technical to contribute (he barely knows who anything works), he constantly insults others, throws constant anti google non-sense and pretends that he represents the foss community or whatever
Dec 2 00:26
they can come in with an alt and idle and you shouldn't care
risen:
💤
Dec 2 00:29
SkewedZeppelin:
plz
I don't understand how y'all can keep bickering and insulting each other
Dec 2 00:30
Matchboxbananasynergy!:
I've made it clear I want no part of that. Sorry for replying man.
Dec 2 00:31
Tommy:
SkewedZeppelin: as far as I am concerned
there are only 2 trouble makers here
and 1 of them has been doing this shit for years outside of this room
Dec 2 00:33
SkewedZeppelin:
Tommy you cannot deny you have been instigating it
> I don't understand how y'all can keep bickering and insulting each other
this goes for everyone
_everyone_
haven't*
Dec 2 00:34
Tommy:
idk man, their behavior in consistent across platforms, all I said is that it's better if you just banned them from the beginning
but you didnt, so they just interject in every discussion
we talked about fdroid and shit
didnt involve them, but they had to jump in and throw out bullshit insults
Dec 2 00:35
I am not interested in their bullshit, I just like technical discussions
either about divestOS itself or about system administration in general
or related android apps
Dec 2 00:37
...
risen:
Anyone point to a good checklist or video for mtp with A13 and Debian? All the written stuff I find seems out of date.
Dec 2 01:54
SkewedZeppelin:
should just work
gnome and derivs use gvfs-mtp
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/MTP
Dec 2 01:55
risen:
> SkewedZeppelin:
> should just work
Where to look?
wj25czxj47bu6q:
Plug in the phone and check your file explorer
SkewedZeppelin:
kde needs kio-extras package and gnome needs gvfs-backends
after that it should just appera in the file manager
Dec 2 01:56
wj25czxj47bu6q:
It should appear in Nautilus/Dolphin at least
SkewedZeppelin:
libmtp provides a mtp-detect command to test
https://wiki.debian.org/mtp
Dec 2 01:57
wj25czxj47bu6q:
I can confirm that it also works in Nemo (Cinnamon's file explorer)
Dec 2 01:58
risen:
This could be why I just used adb till now, since it's already installed after installing OS, and just worked for single user.
wj25czxj47bu6q:
Usually MTP 'just works' and ADB is what needs installation
Dec 2 01:59
risen:
Thanks for links and suggestions
Dec 2 02:00
wj25czxj47bu6q:
Make sure your phone is in MTP mode too (check your notifications for USB mode)
...
risen:
> SkewedZeppelin:
> kde needs kio-extras package and gnome needs gvfs-backends
The device appears after installing gvfs-backends, but doesn't display any content in file manager. Thanks Thunar. Lol
Dec 2 02:32
SkewedZeppelin:
sometimes if you click on the device in the manager before allowing mtp it'll show blank
you have to click to another folder and then back
wj25czxj47bu6q:
Also happens when you don't have MTP enabled on the phone side. The device shows up but no filesystem.
Dec 2 02:33
risen:
Oh, allow mtp on device. 🥵 Didn't see a helpful popup
Plug n play baby. Not. 🤣
Dec 2 02:36
Anybody know good script or command for command line backups over mtp? Sigh
Dec 2 02:45
wj25czxj47bu6q:
First you need to find the path where the MTP filesystem is mounted on your PC, and then standard file manipulation commands like `cp` apply
Dec 2 02:47
risen:
Mount didn't show anything obvious, nether did dh
Dec 2 02:49
wj25czxj47bu6q:
You won't find it that way
Dec 2 02:50
Open a file from MTP via your graphical file explorer. Usually the properties window or a text editor or something will show the full real path
Dec 2 02:51
Actually, the GVFS backend seems not to work that way.
Dec 2 02:53
risen:
Same thing as in file manager
mtp://device/...
Dec 2 02:54
...
strcat:
you don't need anything more than libmtp to use mtp
```
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-albumart
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-albums
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-connect
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-delfile
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-detect
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-emptyfolders
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-files
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-filetree
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-folders
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-format
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-getfile
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-getplaylist
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-hotplug
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-newfolder
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-newplaylist
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-playlists
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-reset
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-sendfile
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-sendtr
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-thumb
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-tracks
libmtp /usr/bin/mtp-trexist
a FUSE FS, etc. is optional and is a lossy abstraction since it doesn't act like a normal fs
Dec 2 03:02
risen:
I feel my "attack surface" growing. Maybe better to just copy on the device, using the convenient onboard SD card as transfer place.
strcat:
MTP is odd, but it works well, and you avoid needing the massive invasive access granted by adb
Dec 2 03:03
still pretty invasive to grant a computer access to all profile data
still pretty invasive to grant a computer access to all profile home directory data
Dec 2 03:04
wj25czxj47bu6q:
> <@strcat:grapheneos.org> btw we have to add a warning about GNOME's GVFS to our install guides since it often breaks connecting via fastboot...
I hate auto-mounting of filesystems in general. I always disable it (except when explicitly enabled like in fstab)
Dec 2 03:08
risen:
I don't like plugging anything into USB plugs, but what else can you do
Dec 2 03:09
USB cables from China sound dangerous.
Dec 2 03:12
...
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