strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> I wouldn't install that for a few reasons, but also wouldn't again install GrapheneOS because of behavior of people in the mud pit surrounding it.
I'm glad we don't have someone so toxic and dishonest using our OS
Dec 8 04:08
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Does uber and lyft apps work on Dos? Over Orbot?
thought you didn't want compatibility with apps depending on Google services via Google Play SDK?
Dec 8 04:09
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > It's physically impossible to get meaningful privacy on cell service, since at least one company can track your location at any given time.
> So no meaningful privacy with Gos either
cell network knowing where the phone is (same radio id and subscription) when not using airplane mode doesn't somehow mean you can't have meaningful privacy, not sure what this has to do with GrapheneOS though
Dec 8 04:12
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Mebbe I fly to NY, go to a crypto Harlem meetup, ask Matt Mitchell if the BS I was told about neo Nazis and calyx rings true
it's a fact that Calyx has welcomed nazis in their community and works with them, including one of the main groups selling Calyx phones being run by someone who openly brags about being a fascist who wants authoritarian dictatorships and left wing people thrown out of helicopters, and I posted screenshots showing them engaging in vicious harassment / bullying, which I can do for many members of their core community and even project members
Dec 8 04:14
they wouldn't even ban Kiwi Farms from their chat rooms after they were going there to spread attacks on me
all they did is ask them to make the attacks elsewhere, after voicing support for it
logs are available showing Nicolas Merrill joining in and pushing the claims which come directly from Calyx and their associates that I'm crazy, delusional, etc.
you will see them asking the people engaging in bullying/harassment there which crosses a certain line to not do it in that room, while making it clear they aren't against doing it
very consistent in the logs for their rooms, and they usually only remove it later
their lead developer mostly shuts it down and removes it, the leader of the org does not at all and engages in it
Dec 8 04:16
I don't think pretending to be super progressive and in tune with political issues while behaving in a completely incompatible way and choosing to work with / associate with people entirely opposed to that makes them look better
Dec 8 04:33
members of the Calyx community who are welcomed there have actively harassed GrapheneOS project members and community members for being trans women, and nothing was done about, to the point that they refused to even ban Kiwi Farms from their room or say anything about all that nonsense
still ongoing, including raids on our forum yesterday, not just Matrix
Dec 8 04:35
but sure they posted some pledge to market themselves while engaging in extremely toxic behavior and welcoming people doing it
Dec 8 04:37
SkewedZeppelin: I'm not sure why F-Droid developers think https://wonderfall.dev/fdroid-issues/ was published by GrapheneOS or a GrapheneOS developer, it isn't
Dec 8 11:38
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> If people want privacy, they should be careful about which apps they install. At least e attempts to give ratings to apps.
That's not how it works
If your entire privacy model relies on ohhhhh let's hope the app doesn't screw us
Dec 8 11:40
You already lost
What grapheme gives the user is more control over what the apps have access to
Network/sensor permission, storage scopes are example of that
Dec 8 11:42
You can easily open up fdroid in divest, install aurora, and it wouldn't be any different from opening the GOS app store and installing the play store
What graphene gives the user is more control over what the apps have access to
Network/sensor permission, storage scopes are examples of that
risen:
Strcat, I've seen your examples of your "proof", and I've seen enough of your interactions to make my own conclusions. I'm glad you're glad to lose another user and possible donor. Keep it up and you'll lose more.
Dec 8 14:01
Tommy:
SkewedZeppelin: BTW tad do you have a Fairphone 4
Or do you just build it blind
Dec 8 14:06
risen:
> You can easily open up fdroid in divest, install aurora, and it wouldn't be any different from opening the GOS app store and installing the play store
If you count the number of steps needed, Gos takes fewer, and puts it quickly in view in apps app, making it encouraged, IMO.
> What graphene gives the user is more control over what the apps have access to
> Network/sensor permission, storage scopes are examples of that
To the extent these are included in other OS like DivestOS, thanks.
Tommy: AFAIK, blind.
Dec 8 14:07
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > You can easily open up fdroid in divest, install aurora, and it wouldn't be any different from opening the GOS app store and installing the play store
>
> If you count the number of steps needed, Gos takes fewer, and puts it quickly in view in apps app, making it encouraged, IMO.
>
> > What graphene gives the user is more control over what the apps have access to
> > Network/sensor permission, storage scopes are examples of that
> To the extent these are included in other OS like DivestOS, thanks.
Takes the same amount of steps
1. open the app store
2. Install google playstore or its proxy
Dec 8 14:09
risen:
Or with insight into how other successful builds like CalyxOS, e, FPos do it
Tommy:
Yes I just counted
No
DivestOS lacks may of those features
Dec 8 14:10
The network and sensor got added earlier this year while GOS has had it for a long time
The network and sensor permission got added earlier this year while GOS has had it for a long time
Storage scopes is not in divest
Disabling sensor permission by default is not in divest
Dec 8 14:11
Secure exec spawn is in divest but disabled by default (at least on my 7T)
Etc and etc
Dec 8 14:12
And this is also divest specific since it ports some features of graphene over, other OSes don't even have it
And this is also divest specific since it ports some features of graphene over, most other OSes don't even have it
Dec 8 14:13
risen:
"To the extent they are included" means we know it is different.
Tommy:
It is only a subset
Dec 8 14:14
risen:
Just say "you're welcome" LOL
Tommy:
What?
I am not a graphene developer
Dec 8 14:15
risen:
I've got you as a sysop and groupie.
Dec 8 14:16
Tommy:
I am a sysadmin yes
Don't see how that's related
Dec 8 14:17
risen:
> What?
> I am not a graphene developer
Dec 8 14:19
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > What?
> > I am not a graphene developer
What does that have to do with "you're welcome"
I don't develop GOS
I don't do sysadmin work for them
The most I am is being a mod and that's about it
Dec 8 14:22
risen:
In DivestOS, to add Aurora gapps store:
Open F-Droid
Somehow have awareness and desire for Aurora and gapps
Search for it
Adjust settings to show anti features apps if not already
Pick one of 3 Aurora apps, currently
Install, despite anti features warning
Dec 8 14:25
Tommy:
> <@tommy:arcticfoxes.net> So the broken verified boot isn't actually fixed
Effectively its about as secure as the locked bootloader on older devices
Without verified boot
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> In DivestOS, to add Aurora gapps store:
> Open F-Droid
> Somehow have awareness and desire for Aurora and gapps
> Search for it
> Adjust settings to show anti features apps if not already
> Pick one of 3 Aurora apps, currently
> Install, despite anti features warning
The anti feature thing is joke
Dec 8 14:26
VPN app? Anti feature cuz promoting a paid network! (Duh)
Dec 8 14:27
Weather app? Anti feature cuz pulling data from some weather services cuz they are not open source
As if that somehow affects your actual privacy
VPN provider apps with *some censorship evasion* feature and. multihopping? Anti feature
Dec 8 14:31
Openvpn app which loads in the same profile from the vpn provider and don't have those features? No anti features
Dec 8 14:32
And I know which one I am actually going to use here
On top of this the permission display is completely misleading
Dec 8 14:33
risen:
There is fine grain settings for anti features filter, for your preferences
Mebbe I stop that annoying Uninstall vuln app warning with setting change. 🤣
Dec 8 14:35
Tommy:
The whole display is completely misleading
Dec 8 14:37
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> There is fine grain settings for anti features filter, for your preferences
Oh and what if I turn off the non free network bs? Great, now aurora store has no anti features!!!
The labels and warnings don't mean anything (except for maybe the vulnerable app one)
Anti features label is misleading, permissions label is misleading
Dec 8 14:38
According to FDroid element has all this scary power of accessing your mic, files, location, camera, contact list, nearby devices when no it fucking does not
Dec 8 14:41
risen:
Idk, turn off non free network toggle, Aurora gapps isn't shown, but it alerts you something wasn't shown. WFM
Baba:
> * false sense of security in their privacy, as they install all their favorite apps...
What is the problem with you rise n. You argue like kid. Grow up man.
Dec 8 14:43
risen:
Got you calibrated too BaBa
Dec 8 14:44
thecast:
> Tommy:
> Weather app? Anti feature cuz pulling data from some weather services cuz they are not open source
> As if that somehow affects your actual privacy
To be fair, I don't think F-Droid is necessarily trying to imply anything about privacy with nonfreenet, just trying to promote open source I would think. I can see how it could be misleading/misinterpreted though
Dec 8 14:50
risen:
> Weather app? Anti feature cuz pulling data from some weather services cuz they are not open source
> As if that somehow affects your actual privacy
Privacy is not the only issue, right. Some people have additional criteria and reasons. Do you really not see that?
Dec 8 14:52
Tommy:
He seems to (and rather disingenuously) think that the job of the operating system is to control what the user can install
Rather than controlling the access those apps have once they are installed
Dec 8 14:53
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > Weather app? Anti feature cuz pulling data from some weather services cuz they are not open source
> > As if that somehow affects your actual privacy
> Privacy is not the only issue, right. Some people have additional criteria and reasons. Do you really not see that?
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/cz.martykan.forecastie/
That's 1 exmple
That's 1 example
Dec 8 14:54
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > Weather app? Anti feature cuz pulling data from some weather services cuz they are not open source
> > As if that somehow affects your actual privacy
> Privacy is not the only issue, right. Some people have additional criteria and reasons. Do you really not see that?
You are criticizing the grapheneos for "providing a false sense of privacy" by allowing users to install google appa
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > Weather app? Anti feature cuz pulling data from some weather services cuz they are not open source
> > As if that somehow affects your actual privacy
> Privacy is not the only issue, right. Some people have additional criteria and reasons. Do you really not see that?
You are criticizing the grapheneos for "providing a false sense of privacy" by allowing users to install google apps and pps that are dependent on their services
So we are talking privacy here and don't try to move the goal post
Dec 8 14:56
Nevermind the fact that some of those apps (even when made by google) are actually GOOD FOR PRIVACY
Google messages is one example
Dec 8 14:57
Opportunistic E2EE with RCS or no E2EE whatsoever with a random generic SMS app
risen:
Look, when you say stuff like "disingenuously" it is a discussion ender. Bye.
Dec 8 14:59
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Look, when you say stuff like "disingenuously" it is a discussion ender. Bye.
Right so now that your "privacy" argument is completely out of the window you got run away
Great
Dec 8 15:03
Step 1: shit on grapheneos for being usable and not actively discouraging people from installing apps
Dec 8 15:15
Step 2: moving the goal post when being shown that even for privacy purposes it makes sense to allow users to installing apps and claiming that it is not about private y
Step 2: moving the goal post when being shown that even for privacy purposes it makes sense to allow users to installing apps and claiming that it is not about privacy
Dec 8 15:16
If that's not being disingenuous then I don't know what is
...
iptwqvhclh:
Hey, everyone. Has anyone tried installing and configuring microG on DivestOS? Official doc says that I have to enable some signature spoofing thing. Is it possible on DivestOS?
Dec 8 19:07
SkewedZeppelin:
nope
microG is not supported
iptwqvhclh:
Same applies for GrapheneOS, am I correct?
Dec 8 19:28
SkewedZeppelin:
https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play
iptwqvhclh:
Oh, thanks, didn't know that. Does divest has such feature?
Dec 8 19:34
no
DivestOS has no support for Play in any regard
Dec 8 19:35
...
on a serious note, I've added historical /e/OS dates here: https://divestos.org/misc/a-dates.txt
it is worse than I thought
I did it twice too
made sure I didn't miss any
Dec 8 20:53
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