toaskoas:
What do you think about e OS and Murena Phone?
Dec 9 22:13
SkewedZeppelin:
Lol
Dec 9 22:14
https://divestos.org/index.php?page=patch_levels#osSecurity
https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt
murena phone specifically is a 5 year old soc
likely end of life
includes android 11
and is just a bad value
that is in addition to their inclusion of a nearly 9 month old version of chromium
and a pdf viewer from 2016
and claiming "degoogled" while it directly phones home to google out of the box
Dec 9 22:20
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Tommy:
> > Step 1: Harass developers and make endless false claims
> > Step 2: Pretend to be holier than thou when you get called out for your behavior then throw their CoC at them as if they did anything wrong
> I know this is a mantra, but I was here exchanging opinions, long before y'all came along. You've given zero examples of "false claims", and y'all are the harassers here.
you were here attacking GrapheneOS and myself with false claims for months, and I've repeated pointed out the false claims since I joined, and other people have gained the courage to start doing it since you can't just call them names and dismiss it as easily
Dec 9 23:53
risen:
> you were here attacking GrapheneOS and myself with false claims for months, and I've repeated pointed out the false claims since I joined,
^ Blatant lie ^
> Be respectful and constructive.
Dec 10 00:11
SkewedZeppelin:
what is the point of all this
Dec 10 00:21
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > I've lost all faith in him as a dev lol
> > can't trust him after that personally
> I know *exactly* what you mean. Why is it OK for you to say so, but not for me?
Because it is a valid concern over app maintenance
Meanwhile you are taking cheap shots with no technical merits
Not even basic logic backing it up
Dec 10 01:35
risen:
SkewedZeppelin:
> what is the point of all this
My take: It's OK to criticize CalyxOS, F-Droid, iode, mur/e/na, simple, ..., but never GrapheneOS. Or they will hunt you down and berate you.
Tommy:
And when given the explanation you move the goal post
Dec 10 01:36
SkewedZeppelin:
I think sentences like "gos (is great)" went slightly beyond criticism
17.1 and 18.1 RC#1 December ASB builds are up. 19.1 compile still going
Tommy:
Step 1: graphene is bad for privacy because it doesn't go out of its way to block app installs
SkewedZeppelin:
and I've always been factual as best I can in my talks of issues with other projects
Tommy:
Step 2: divest -> fdroid -> aurora is okay because there is a non free network warning
Step 3: OK the non free network warning is useless but privacy is not the most important thing
You went full circle on that one
Dec 10 01:38
Why do you have to be so disingenuous?
You not liking the developers is one thing, you shitting on the OS without any short of logic behind it is another thing
Its not based on tech, not based on any value, not based on anything
Dec 10 01:39
It is very clear that you are just coming up with bullshit to take a shot at the os
risen:
SkewedZeppelin:
> and I've always been factual as best I can in my talks of issues with other projects
I agree. No problems with you. Tho duval may be at his rope end. :)
Dec 10 01:40
Tommy:
Not that you have anything meaningful to say
risen:
> Below is our community code of conduct, which applies to our forums, chat rooms, issue trackers, and any other GrapheneOS-supported communication group, as well as any private communication initiated in the context of these spaces. Simply put, community discussions should be the following:
> Respectful and kind
> About GrapheneOS
> About features and code, not the individuals involved
Dec 10 01:42
Tommy: Personal attacks will be ignored, as much as possible. If you want dialogue, you can be civil.
Dec 10 01:45
SkewedZeppelin:
> I think sentences like "gos (is great)" went slightly beyond criticism
You're right. I apologize for saying Gos is great.
Dec 10 01:48
Tommy:
You not liking the developers is one thing, you shitting on the OS without any sort of logic behind it is another thing
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Tommy: Personal attacks will be ignored, as much as possible. If you want dialogue, you can be civil.
Step 1: personally attack developers
Step 2: gets called out for being disingenuous == nooo personal attacks
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Tommy: Personal attacks will be ignored, as much as possible. If you want dialogue, you can be civil.
Step 1: personally attack developers
Step 2: gets called out for being disingenuous => nooo personal attacks
Dec 10 01:49
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Tommy: Personal attacks will be ignored, as much as possible. If you want dialogue, you can be civil.
you've made personal attacks targeting me here for ages before I joined the room
spread fabricated stories about as character assassination
Dec 10 01:50
spread fabricated stories with the goal of character assassination
you've repeatedly spread fabricated stories with the goal of character assassination
Dec 10 01:52
risen:
strcat:
> spread fabricated stories with the goal of character assassination
> you've repeatedly spread fabricated stories with the goal of character assassination
It's possible you believe what you've written. It's false, but if you believe it, something other than lies is happening here. You have my pity. I'll try ignoring you.
Dec 10 02:00
SkewedZeppelin:
I need to enact a rules
suggestions wanted
Dec 10 02:03
swan:
perhaps you should take this to direct messages instead of a public muc
SkewedZeppelin:
private messages are disabled in this room
Dec 10 02:04
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> strcat:
> > spread fabricated stories with the goal of character assassination
> > you've repeatedly spread fabricated stories with the goal of character assassination
> It's possible you believe what you've written. It's false, but if you believe it, something other than lies is happening here. You have my pity. I'll try ignoring you.
99% of your attacks have not been in response to anything that I said
and were largely before I was here
swan:
>private messages are disabled in this room
welp
strcat:
so please, don't pretend it started when I joined, and I joined to defend GrapheneOS from egregious misinformation that a dozen people messaged me about
so please, don't pretend it started when I joined, and I joined to defend GrapheneOS from egregious misinformation from you that a dozen people messaged me about
Dec 10 02:05
risen:
SkewedZeppelin:
> I need to enact a rules
> suggestions wanted
Following Gos forum stated rules mebbe
Dec 10 02:08
swan:
You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But, remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:
Name-calling.
Ad hominem attacks.
Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content.
Knee-jerk contradiction.
Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.
>suggestions wanted
Dec 10 02:09
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> SkewedZeppelin:
> > I need to enact a rules
> > suggestions wanted
> Following Gos forum stated rules mebbe
in which case you would have been banned for spreading misinformation and making baseless personal attacks on people ages ago
Dec 10 02:10
risen:
swan:
> perhaps you should take this to direct messages instead of a public muc
Seeing the public behavior, I want no DMs.
Dec 10 02:12
jp:
your infighting is getting boring
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_SkewedZeppelin=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> suggestions wanted
Technical discussions only
Dec 10 02:13
Like really for fucks sake I want to discuss either divest or android related shit
strcat:
if risen makes baseless attacks on GrapheneOS and myself, I'll respond to them
Dec 10 02:14
Tommy:
I really don't want to deal with people like risen
strcat:
and I will potentially go back and start responding to messages from before I was here too
Tommy:
But then seeing him taking cheap shots over and over is annoying
strcat:
he's clearly going to continue doing that
Luminant:
> <@_xmpp_SkewedZeppelin=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> suggestions wanted
Maybe expand what's considered off topic to the subjects of these arguments?
Dec 10 02:16
swan:
>if risen makes baseless attacks on GrapheneOS
when did they make baseless claims?
strcat:
that is what they've been doing for months
making false and baseless claims about GrapheneOS repeatedly
they are doing it right now
Dec 10 02:17
swan:
when? I have been here for months and they haven't said anything like that
strcat:
if you want to lie about what's happening too, that's fine, as I said, I have no problem countering people making dishonest attacks on GrapheneOS here
they have been doing that repeatedly, many people have noticed it, and a dozen people contacted me until I was convinced to come here
and I should note that at the moment, I have not discussed what's happening here in the public GrapheneOS Matrix rooms, Twitter or elsewhere
if it continues, I will
Dec 10 02:18
swan:
you still haven't mentioned what they said that was a baseless claim though
strcat:
I have done that repeatedly
please stop lying
Luminant:
I don't think ifs fair to accuse swan of lying while asking for more info, as not everyone checks this room often/has the full picture to back up either claims
strcat:
they are lying
that is an objective fact
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_swan=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> perhaps you should take this to direct messages instead of a public muc
Can't do bridge DMs either
strcat:
> <@luminant:plus.st> I don't think ifs fair to accuse swan of lying while asking for more info, as not everyone checks this room often/has the full picture to back up either claims
they're claiming to have been around seeing what has happened, and claiming that risen has not repeatedly made baseless attacks on GrapheneOS here, multiple times a day, is not the truth
claiming that I have not given examples is not the truth
he has been doing it today
Dec 10 02:19
if risen is welcome here, this room's main topic is risen's attacks on GrapheneOS
Dec 10 02:20
swan:
can you actually link screenshots or quotes of what they have said that you don't like?
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_swan=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> can you actually link screenshots or quotes of what they have said that you don't like?
Sure
strcat:
there have been multiple examples today which you can see
Tommy:
I will link it to you right now
Luminant:
> <@strcat:grapheneos.org> they're claiming to have been around seeing what has happened, and claiming that risen has not repeatedly made baseless attacks on GrapheneOS here, multiple times a day, is not the truth
That being said, for some of us not as experienced in android and privacy, either side could be correct to mu knowledge and we just see two users agressively messaging about each other
swan:
>I will link it to you right now
thank you
Tommy:
1 second so I can scroll up
strcat:
> <@luminant:plus.st> That being said, for some of us not as experienced in android and privacy, either side could be correct to mu knowledge and we just see two users agressively messaging about each other
which is the point of risen's dishonest and manipulative behavior making baseless and false claims most people are not in a position to evaluate
Dec 10 02:21
he will just make a false claim, then refuse to explain himself / justify it at all
he does that repeatedly, multiple times a day
GrapheneOS is not the only thing he does it with, but it is the main thing
Dec 10 02:22
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Cos, e and gos give users false security in their privacy, IMO. In that I agree with optimum poster
this
the whole chain is here
strcat:
it is not something that has happened once but multiple times daily for months and months
swan:
ah I see now
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > Weather app? Anti feature cuz pulling data from some weather services cuz they are not open source
> > As if that somehow affects your actual privacy
> Privacy is not the only issue, right. Some people have additional criteria and reasons. Do you really not see that?
showing his true colors right here
strcat:
risen makes baseless and false claims here, refuses to provide any actual example or facts, spreads blatant misinformation from elsewhere and if you challenge him he'll claim you are doing something wrong
Dec 10 02:23
Tommy:
he did a 180 degrees move
strcat:
I think it's best to just search for one of the terms he uses frequently
search for 'gos' and it's mostly him
my issue is with the overall thing he is doing not a specific single case of it
there have been some particularly egregious examples, and I could show a couple of those, but I think it understates how much he is doing it if I just single out a few examples
he was attacking GrapheneOS today so I responded
you can see what I responded to which started this latest back and forth
Dec 10 02:24
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > It's physically impossible to get meaningful privacy on cell service, since at least one company can track your location at any given time.
> So no meaningful privacy with Gos either
here is another disingenuous post
thats another chain if you wanna read it
strcat:
those are just little minor examples of what he does constantly
Tommy:
yeah I am literally just scrolling up
Dec 10 02:25
strcat:
to understand it you need to search for 'gos' and see he's constantly attacking it with false and baseless claims
you can challenge him, he knows he is making a baseless claim and will just be evasive
there is no substance to talk about
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> I was concerned what might happen on Gos if I missed updates while not paying attention. Monthly is 3 bears right imo
here is another one:
For context, GOS does auto updates, most others do not.
he is clearly here to take cheap shots
like when has he had any meaningful convo
Dec 10 02:26
strcat:
so yes it just ends up being about him being a dishonest asshole because when he repeatedly makes claims saying that I'm untrustworthy, that I'm not capable of doing logical reasoning, that I lack judgement, when he lies about the history of GrapheneOS with no details of what he means, etc. he is purposely making it so that there is no substance to refute
Tommy:
like when has he had any meaningful convo that contributes anything to anyone
strcat:
there is no reasoning given, just these baseless and often outright false claims he makes over and over and over with no substance
he does not only do it about GrapheneOS
Dec 10 02:27
he does this throughout the day, I come and look at what lies he has said about us and respond to that refuting them
for months he was doing it unchallenge
for months he was doing it unchallenged
Dec 10 02:28
Tommy:
Also bear in mind, I am not even here to defend gos or whatever like strcat. I am a genuine divest user and have been using it for quite some times on my op7t. But I cannot ignore the bullshit that goes on before my very eyes either
Dec 10 02:29
but no, according to risen, anyone who calls him out for his behavior is apparently a "gos groupie"
coming here to "raid" the room
Also bear in mind, I am not even here to defend gos or whatever like strcat. I am a genuine divest user and have been using it for quite some times on my op7t. But I cannot ignore the bullshit that goes on before my own eyes either
Dec 10 02:30
he is so transparently trying to shit on graphene even when he has nothing technical to back it up
theres 0 ambiguity here
Dec 10 02:31
SkewedZeppelin:
jfyi editing anything but your most recent message results in it being sent again
I guess matrix lets you edit past messages?
Dec 10 02:34
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_SkewedZeppelin=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> I guess matrix lets you edit past messages?
yes
always been the case
...
restive_monk:
strcat: You can't fight risen like this. He has a different view point and he will continue to be vocal about it. How do you think you can make him stop? Unless your POV is same it won't stop. I feel very sad when I see you spending so much of time spending here defending your project. It is way too high when all these time should have been spent productovely improving GOS. Somewhere you have to trust your users to be intelligent enough to see the facts and make right choices. This room mostly is not even your target audience. I don't mean to pontificate you. But I hate to see talented minds(both of you) getting wasted in these kind of drudgerry.
Dec 10 02:54
SkewedZeppelin:
ring ring
effective immediately, some rules: https://divested.dev/index.php?page=community_rules
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_restive_monk=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> strcat: You can't fight risen like this. He has a different view point and he will continue to be vocal about it. How do you think you can make him stop? Unless your POV is same it won't stop. I feel very sad when I see you spending so much of time spending here defending your project. It is way too high when all these time should have been spent productovely improving GOS. Somewhere you have to trust your users to be intelligent enough to see the facts and make right choices. This room mostly is not even your target audience. I don't mean to pontificate you. But I hate to see talented minds(both of you) getting wasted in these kind of drudgerry.
It's not a point of few, it's just being deliberately disingenuous
I have seen people with different POVs
they dont act like this
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_restive_monk=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> strcat: You can't fight risen like this. He has a different view point and he will continue to be vocal about it. How do you think you can make him stop? Unless your POV is same it won't stop. I feel very sad when I see you spending so much of time spending here defending your project. It is way too high when all these time should have been spent productovely improving GOS. Somewhere you have to trust your users to be intelligent enough to see the facts and make right choices. This room mostly is not even your target audience. I don't mean to pontificate you. But I hate to see talented minds(both of you) getting wasted in these kind of drudgerry.
he's posting baseless claims and lies, that's not a 'different POV'
Dec 10 02:55
restive_monk:
SkewedZeppelin: Don't the users of the muc have right to ask for meaningful and only DOS related chats here? I think there are too many chats which I don't want to see as I come here only for DOS related stuff.
strcat:
if there were not attacks being made on GrapheneOS, I would not be responding, and if the attacks had any actual substance / reasoning there would be something to talk about beyond the fact that someone is attacking it
Dec 10 02:56
SkewedZeppelin:
y'all please read the rules
strcat:
if there were not attacks being made on GrapheneOS, I would not be responding, and if the attacks had any actual substance / reasoning there would be something to talk about beyond the fact that someone is attacking it repeatedly with baseless claims
...
risen:
Sorry, TL;DR what I miss while out having a life?
Dec 10 03:04
SkewedZeppelin:
tweaked
> effective immediately, some rules: https://divested.dev/index.php?page=community_rules
Dec 10 03:05
Tommy:
also are you going to enforce any of this?
Dec 10 03:06
SkewedZeppelin:
yes
you'll win a ban
Dec 10 03:07
risen:
The cache finally cleared! ⏳
Dec 10 03:08
Tommy:
good
next time I'd just ping you then
risen:
Can I say I really like DivestOS and CalyxOS approximately monthly updates pace, without giving a reference? 🤔
Dec 10 03:11
SkewedZeppelin:
> Sustained disruption of community areas.
risen:
What?
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Can I say I really like DivestOS and CalyxOS approximately monthly updates pace, without giving a reference? 🤔
why not just stop trying to make jabs at GrapheneOS, especially trying to attack it because we provide security updates as they're release instead of waiting up to a month...
Dec 10 03:12
you've already been trying to do it in an indirect way half the time, which is still blatantly obvious
this room is supposed to be for DivestOS
Dec 10 03:13
risen:
> Deliberate intimidation, stalking or following (online or in person).
> Sustained disruption of community areas.
Dec 10 03:14
Tommy:
there he goes again
Dec 10 03:15
swan:
community rules looks good
strcat:
why not just stop trying to make jabs at GrapheneOS, especially trying to attack it because we provide security updates as they're released instead of waiting up to a month...
Dec 10 03:16
risen:
I'm downloading the latest DivestOS update, Thanks SkewedZeppelin
Tommy:
clearly violates "Sustained disruption of community areas."
theanonymousejoker:
> I know this is a mantra, but I was here exchanging opinions, long before y'all came along. You've given zero examples of "false claims", and y'all are the harassers here.
risen: I would suggest being a lot more upfront with dealing with them, and playing with them using their own playbook. They love running their anonymity abusing little circus since they have nothing better to do in life, and are used to doing this stuff to everyone, to the point they use RSS feeds of reddit accounts to stalk every critic on internet.
Dec 10 03:18
Tommy:
SkewedZeppelin: "Sustained disruption of community areas" again, this time for TAJ
Also "Personal insults, particularly those related to gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or disability."
Dec 10 03:19
Even for more context, neither I nor strcat are anonymous here
SkewedZeppelin:
theanonymousejoker, you have two yourself
read the rules
strcat:
SkewedZeppelin: just FYI, theanonymousejoker has been involved in harassing me and spreading fabricated claims about me for years on Reddit and elsewhere and I can show you outrageously false claims they spread about it, along with their support for the genocide of Uyghur people in China
and they are doing that with Tommy and others too
they target Privacy Guides members and all kinds of other people
Dec 10 03:20
theanonymousejoker:
I use this one because I could not upload any images with the other, and I do not use the other one, unlike other users here that use 2-3 accounts at the same time.
Tommy:
I have proof of that if you really want me to dig it up also accuses me of being racist for being a white north american
theanonymousejoker:
Infact, I cannot even access this chat with the other one, so how is that logged in here?
strcat:
SkewedZeppelin: https://www.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/ug9qnc/writeup_criticism_of_rprivacyguides_grapheneos/ their own post which shows what they do pretty well
Dec 10 03:21
Tommy:
and for context I aint white or american/canadian
I have proof of that if you really want me to dig it up (he also accuses me of being racist for being a white north american)
theanonymousejoker:
Thanks for plugging in my long post, I hope you have credible evidence (not CIA propaganda) for labelling me shit like "genocide supporter" strcat
Dec 10 03:22
strcat:
right, "CIA propaganda"
SkewedZeppelin:
can y'all just stop?
I've generously given multiple warnings
risen:
SkewedZeppelin: 👍
theanonymousejoker:
🤐
Dec 10 03:23
Tommy:
So are you just going to let them stirring shit up, take 1 - 2 cheap shots at other people who actually tried to help you with divest?
So are you just going to let them stirring shit up, take 1 - 2 cheap shots at other people who actually tried to help you with divest, then running away?
Dec 10 03:26
Because if you don't do something right now that is **exactly** what's going to keep happening, as it has been happening
risen:
> Sustained disruption of community areas.
> Advocating for, or encouraging, any of the above behavior.
Dec 10 03:27
theanonymousejoker:
SkewedZeppelin: for some reason my other account is logged into the MUC, and I am neither able to interact with the chat, nor leave from it. Can you kick it on my behalf? I always operate only from one account in any MUC (never sent message here from that one), and it was never intentional.
Luminant:
Honestly at this point I feel like anyone involved in that dispute is breaking the off topic rules
Dec 10 03:28
Tommy:
And I am quickly losing interest in participating in Divest communities or whatever given that this is not going to stop
quite honestly
strcat:
SkewedZeppelin: https://www.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/ys528u/comment/iw39qv2/ I can provide several hundred examples like this of clearly fabricated stories and also bullying/harassment
Dec 10 03:29
risen:
> Please keep all personal aspects to a minimum and instead focus on productive, civil, and technical talks.
Luminant:
Sometimes people need to just let things go, and it takes the more mature person to not always have the last word, otherwisd we'll be here for all eternity
strcat:
okay, there is someone harassing me long term
they're in this room
are the rules going to be enforced? they have not stopped doing it
Dec 10 03:30
risen:
> Please keep all personal aspects to a minimum and instead focus on productive, civil, and technical talks.
strcat:
and btw what risen is doing now is more of the usual
risen:
Luminant: 👍
theanonymousejoker:
Luminant: I agree, the above is evidence of it, and flaming, projection and bait should be rules enforced for any chatroom
Dec 10 03:31
strcat:
I'll provide more links to threads showing that abuse is ongoing, there is no way to privately report rule violation
SkewedZeppelin:
strcat it is not necessary
I've already seen provably false claims from them from others I am in contact with
Dec 10 03:32
Tommy:
why are you allowing them here
strcat:
https://www.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/w2j3id/comment/iguj1fc/ just one example to prove I did not lie about that
Tommy:
shitting on others day to day
taking a shot, then running away
can't actually back anything up
Dec 10 03:33
is that actually **okay** with you?
Dec 10 03:34
SkewedZeppelin:
no it is not
but they'd just come back with a sock and spew the same garbage
I'd rather first try to solve amicably
clearly that doesn't work
Tommy:
it has worked for me
I will just give them the ban-on-sight treatment
after a couple of sockpuppets they are gone
Dec 10 03:35
> <@_xmpp_SkewedZeppelin=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> I'd rather first try to solve amicably
clearly this approach hasn't worked out for weeks now
whats even the point...
Dec 10 03:36
usually it's very simple, if you don't get rid of these nasty people, other people will lose interest and leave
Dec 10 03:37
then you end up with a situation where either the trouble makers also leave and leave you a dead chat
or they keep talking and the chat turns into conspiracy land
Dec 10 03:38
thats just how it's gonna end
risen:
> clearly this approach hasn't worked out for weeks now
What changed a couple/few weeks ago
Dec 10 03:40
Differential diagnosis says
Tommy:
its just whether you value the people who truly care about the project and try to help enough to get rid of the trouble makers or not
when they are gone, they are gone
when they are gone, they are gone forever
Dec 10 03:42
and yeah, I know my contributions has been minimal, but it is still way more than what these people will ever contribute
SkewedZeppelin:
I think there is more depth to this that some of you may be blind to
Tommy:
In the case of TAJ, he is a well-known troll throughout the privacy community
In the case of Risen, the chance of him being simply misguided does become increasingly more unlikely
Dec 10 03:43
SkewedZeppelin:
and I've mentioned here before that risen has contributed in marketing and financially, they didn't spend 95% of their time talking about GrapheneOS until recently
TAJ will receive a ban the next time they break rules _here_
I'm not going to police the Internet
Dec 10 03:44
Tommy:
good
risen:
I'm sick of the unrestrained, unlimited, personal insults
Dec 10 03:45
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_SkewedZeppelin=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> and I've mentioned here before that risen has contributed in marketing and financially, they didn't spend 95% of their time talking about GrapheneOS until recently
I'd be sympathetic if they just liked "free software" or whatever and does not want support for proprietary Google stuff
Dec 10 03:46
swan:
just because someone makes some off hand comments about a project doesn't mean they should be banned. People have a right to their opinions, whether you agree or not.
Tommy:
but taking cheap shots at others for falsehood is a different thing
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> I'm sick of the unrestrained, unlimited, personal insults
you're not being insulted, your behavior is being criticized
Dec 10 03:47
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_swan=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> just because someone makes some off hand comments about a project doesn't mean they should be banned. People have a right to their opinions, whether you agree or not.
that is the thing
it's not an *opinion*
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_swan=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> just because someone makes some off hand comments about a project doesn't mean they should be banned. People have a right to their opinions, whether you agree or not.
risen lies about GrapheneOS and makes personal attacks on which are libel
Tommy:
There is a difference between saying "I do not like Google and wish GrapheneOS doesn't support the sandboxed play services, I just don't like telemetry"
risen:
> you're not being insulted, your behavior is being criticized
That's false
strcat:
it's not false, lying more won't help cover up lies
Dec 10 03:48
Tommy:
and "grapheneos provides false sense of privacy because they allow users to install apps"
SkewedZeppelin:
you're both right and yet both wrong at the same time
Luminant:
And both unnceccecarily agressive
risen:
> risen lies about GrapheneOS and makes personal attacks on which are libel
False.
swan:
I think you should look at the definition of 'opinion'
strcat:
I'm going to be posting about the abuse going on here elsewhere now that it has gone way too far for literally months
Tommy:
Those are 2 very different statements, one is an opinion saying that "hey man, I dont want to deal with google, thats all" and the other is "taking a cheap shots at others"
strcat:
> <@strcat:grapheneos.org> I'm going to be posting about the abuse going on here elsewhere now that it has gone way too far for literally months
a platform for spreading libel about me and misinformation about GrapheneOS is being provided to someone malicious
and now someone even far more blatantly malicious too (TAJ) who has engaged in harassment targeting multiple projects and communities
Dec 10 03:49
you're welcoming someone openly engaging in vicious bullying repeatedly calling me insane and spreading clearly fake claims which you know are fake
SkewedZeppelin:
strcat you cannot deny you came here immediately confrontational to risen instead of even reaching out to me first
Dec 10 03:50
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_SkewedZeppelin=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> strcat you cannot deny you came here immediately confrontational to risen instead of even reaching out to me first
I tried to reach out to you in DM
it didn't work
SkewedZeppelin:
you have my email
what is past is past
I don't care
strcat:
I don't actually know you email but yes I could get it from a repository
SkewedZeppelin:
I've added rules
strcat:
> <@luminant:plus.st> Yes but this relatively small community has become a stage for fighting over thr value of GOS which doesnt feel productive to many of us
because malicious people trying to harm it have been welcomed here and given free reign to attack it for months
or longer
Dec 10 03:51
SkewedZeppelin:
all of you are still derailing this chat from what the topic is
theanonymousejoker:
> TAJ will receive a ban the next time they break rules _here_
> I'm not going to police the Internet
Is this because I have opinions of things that are technically offtopic? And what are the rules? Will pointing out to breakage of rules result in a ban for the other entity here as well, or will it be a video game where I get 1 credit coin, and some others have unlimited credit coins?
I would like to say one thing on the whole issue and in general, though. Beware of people who emphasise on portrayal of optics, instead of hard evidence about anything. People are always manipulated using visual imagery, with what people are shown instead of what people see.
Luminant:
Please dont take my comments as agressive it just seems like at the scale of this chat its neither worth attacking or defending gos with how off topic and drawn out both sides are
if that makes sense
Dec 10 03:52
theanonymousejoker:
> TAJ will receive a ban the next time they break rules _here_
> I'm not going to police the Internet
Is this because I have opinions of things that are technically offtopic? And what are the rules? Will pointing out to breakage of rules result in a ban for the other entity here as well, or will it be a video game where I get 1 credit coin, and some others have unlimited credit coins?
I would like to say one thing on the whole issue and in general, though. Beware of people who emphasise on portrayal of optics, instead of hard evidence about anything. People are always manipulated using visual imagery, with what people are shown instead of what is in front of people.
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_theanonymousejoker=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > TAJ will receive a ban the next time they break rules _here_
> > I'm not going to police the Internet
> Is this because I have opinions of things that are technically offtopic? And what are the rules? Will pointing out to breakage of rules result in a ban for the other entity here as well, or will it be a video game where I get 1 credit coin, and some others have unlimited credit coins?
>
> I would like to say one thing on the whole issue and in general, though. Beware of people who emphasise on portrayal of optics, instead of hard evidence about anything. People are always manipulated using visual imagery, with what people are shown instead of what is in front of people.
you claimed that the lockscreen bypass we discovered / reported in June along with another security researcher only impacted Pixels despite it being fixed for Android 10, 11, 12 and 13 - can we discuss this very specific thing? DivestOS shipped the patch for all their supported devices
swan:
> <@strcat:grapheneos.org> a platform for spreading libel about me and misinformation about GrapheneOS is being provided to someone malicious
>Yes but this relatively small community has become a stage for fighting over thr value of GOS which doesnt feel productive to many of us
I agree
strcat:
will you admit that ONE thing is wrong and correct it in your many posts about it?
to focus on just one small specific thing which is actually relevant to DivestOS
Dec 10 03:53
and you claim that GrapheneOS does not actually provide the features we list at https://grapheneos.org/features which is SOLELY listing improvements over AOSP
therefore, you are also claiming that DivestOS does not provide the hardening features they use from GrapheneOS, which you claim don't exist
Tommy:
SkewedZeppelin: listen, there goes TAJ again
Dec 10 03:55
you said you'd ban him
so please just actually do something
theanonymousejoker:
I never claimed anything about DivestOS, and there is a lot you could correct about me and my work by starting off with your Reddit and Twitter official project accounts, strcat. But I am not interested one bit in that. I refuse to fuel your bait anymore.
strcat:
theanonymousejoker: which features from https://grapheneos.org/features or the subset included fromhttps://divestos.org/index.php?page=technical_details are not real since you regularly claim that
Dec 10 03:56
swan:
can you guys stop
theanonymousejoker:
> Posting grossly unsubstantiated claims ("FUD") without providing tactful source(s).
> Sustained disruption of community areas.
> Advocating for, or encouraging, any of the above behavior.
Dec 10 03:57
strcat:
theanonymousejoker: you've made claims about DivestOS such as your claim that the lockscreen vulnerability they patched in November only impacted Pixels
I've provided sources: see links
I linked some of your comments about it above
Dec 10 03:58
https://www.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/v4wkon/i_guess_people_still_havent_forgotten/iba4og2/
theanonymousejoker:
This is a group about DivestOS, not your project. Please stop.
strcat:
here's a source
> <@strcat:grapheneos.org> theanonymousejoker: which features from https://grapheneos.org/features or the subset included fromhttps://divestos.org/index.php?page=technical_details are not real since you regularly claim that
DivestOS uses a subset of the GrapheneOS features
in that comment you claim they don't exist
theanonymousejoker: which features from https://grapheneos.org/features or the subset included from https://divestos.org/index.php?page=technical\_details are not real since you regularly claim that
what you posted there:
> There are only 3 things they ever did on their own as extras, and even they have basically no value in the grand scheme of things, them being offering:
instead of 16 character, 64 character password limit on lockscreen
> PIN scrambling
> Morula method of exec spawning instead of Zygote method used in most AOSP projects
so you're saying that the DivestOS documentation is untrue?
Dec 10 03:59
can you specify which features listed at https://divestos.org/index.php?page=technical_details as from GrapheneOS are not real?
or which features at https://grapheneos.org/features are not real
Dec 10 04:00
so, for example, the Sensors permission toggle, as a little example partially used by DivestOS (it has some more features not covered on our features page added recently): is that real? does it exist?
Dec 10 04:01
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