strcat:
SkewedZeppelin: btw https://old.reddit.com/user/C00KSP0IS0NAPPL3 is one of the sockpuppet accounts tied to a person who recently joined this room
they make endless new sockpuppets
each of them blocks a long list of people who have previously challenged/debunked their attacks
Dec 9 01:29
which on Reddit now hides their posts from anyone who has challenged them before, and prevents replying not only to them, but to people replying to them
it's a very abusable feature
just to be clear this has nothing to do with risen
Dec 9 01:30
https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/zf40xs/embarrassed_that_i_got_swindled_by_rob_braxman/izfyr6m/
Dec 9 01:31
https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/zf40xs/embarrassed_that_i_got_swindled_by_rob_braxman/izegvsc/ easy way to identify them beyond the same common weird false claims things they post is that they accuse everyone on Reddit who likes GrapheneOS of being my sockpuppet accounts
in reality I can't even look at their comments without private browsing because they have both GrapheneOS account and my personal account blocked, so there is no way to post replies debunking their posts, despite them making new accounts every few days since they reuse the whole block list
people who have posted a single reply to them challenging what they said are blocked on all their new accounts too
Dec 9 01:32
I've posted on Twitter about a dozen of their previous accounts before
this is just one little part of the ongoing malicious attacks on GrapheneOS, just a little portion of what happens on Reddit
https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/zf40xs/embarrassed_that_i_got_swindled_by_rob_braxman/izcw11u/
also worth noting their comments start out voted up to +3 to +5 due to cross-sockpuppet voting
Reddit does nothing
well, Reddit did ban some of their past accounts, but you can't even report a comment from someone who has you blocked to the mods / reddit
reddit made a real genius move with their new blocking design
Dec 9 01:34
SkewedZeppelin: https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/zfzx9k/differences_between_lineageos_and_eos/izg8cks/
worth noting you've actually interacted with some of these accounts
you talked to this one about CalyxOS falling behind on Chromium updates
Dec 9 01:37
SkewedZeppelin:
am not surprised
Dec 9 01:38
zimral even made a post about me on /r/calyxos a while back
strcat:
this one is a distinct person - not one of the sockpuppets of the one earlier
Dec 9 01:39
SkewedZeppelin:
yep
strcat:
but they are part of the same little group always interacting with each other in a non-organic way
the one earlier has seemingly deleted all their old accounts
they've only had that one for 17 days
if I post on Twitter linking to their latest sockpuppet accounts they tend to delete them and move on
if I post on Twitter linking to their latest sockpuppet accounts they tend to delete them and move on to a new series of accounts
before I was reporting them and some were banned by reddit due to the cross-voting stuff
but their new blocking feature interferes
Dec 9 01:40
thecast:
that's pretty terrible
Dec 9 01:42
strcat:
and yes cannot even reply 3-4 comments further into a thread descending from one of their comments
Dec 9 01:43
and as I said they gather a list of everyone who challenges them and block them at the start for their new accounts
Dec 9 01:44
so, over time, their comments essentially become their own little echo chamber, since anyone who does not supporting attacking GrapheneOS through false claims is blocked over time
wj25czxj47bu6q:
Reddit is a great platform /s
strcat:
so it makes a little sub-thread where people not against GrapheneOS cannot reply or see it
and can't report it either
mods of these subreddits mostly don't care and aren't doing anything
Privacy Guides bans them if they are reported but you can't see it / report it
Dec 9 01:45
SkewedZeppelin:
all of the subs in this community are awful anyway
it is the same questions over and over
Dec 9 01:46
strcat:
it still causes a lot of harm to have a dozen people spending hours daily posting false claims from sockpuppets
Dec 9 01:47
SkewedZeppelin:
yes
strcat:
and it's not just on Reddit, they do it elsewhere
they have put substantial effort into doing it for the GrapheneOS and CopperheadOS Wikipedia articles
you can see the result of it there
Dec 9 01:48
people supporting us are not nearly as committed to supporting us as these malicious people are to harming us
no one spends months investing time in a Wikipedia article to undo the false narratives they push or stop them deleting all the content over time
Dec 9 01:49
they are causing immense harm to GrapheneOS through their level of commitment to spending time doing this across platforms
especially with Wikipedia where journalists/others will then paraphrase it / base knowledge on it and then they can just circularly reference the same misinformation
we can't do much since we have to work on development...
Dec 9 01:50
...
just an example of one of their many other sockpuppet accounts
that's the same one
Dec 9 01:54
...
they registered accounts called Graphene0S across platforms too, which they have used to impersonate the project and even tried to scam people
Dec 9 01:56
they blocked our account from the one they made on Twitter, and were responding to posts on a thread about donations for pixel 7 support giving people fake donation info in response to them asking about other ways to donate
same person
and please note this is just ONE of the people doing this
and while this is clearly not risen, there are similarities in the kind of attacks being made, the talking points being reused
Dec 9 01:57
and I can show posts from Calyx and F-Droid project members which closely resemble this and also engage in personal attacks on me claiming I'm schizophrenic, crazy, etc.
Dec 9 01:58
https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1547286521597894657 as one example
SkewedZeppelin:
https://forum.f-droid.org/t/privacy-on-phone/17607/161
👀️
strcat:
and again: doing it across many platforms and rooms
SkewedZeppelin: yep, hc was actually tied to the takeover attempt and moved onto Calyx after that
basically lead F-Droid dev btw
openly engages in spreading fabricated stories about GrapheneOS and myself
Dec 9 01:59
same talking points as these sockpuppet accounts
is this normal behavior? I don't think so
Dec 9 02:01
is it normal that F-Droid devs are spending time repeatedly posting that I'm insane and delusional across platforms, along with spreading blatantly fabricated stories about the history of the project?
and they claim we have 'disrespected them' because we talked about technical deficiencies with the app and debunked these attacks on some occasions
and they claim we have 'disrespected them' because we talked about technical deficiencies with the app + their repository and debunked these attacks on some occasions
Dec 9 02:02
SkewedZeppelin: note the very close similar between multiple talking points used by Hans about 'audits', the fake claims about the history of GrapheneOS and how they portray us defending ourselves from these attacks
SkewedZeppelin: do you see how close it is?
Dec 9 02:04
SkewedZeppelin: note the very close similar between those sockpuppets and multiple talking points used by Hans about 'audits', the fake claims about the history of GrapheneOS and how they portray us defending ourselves from these attacks
SkewedZeppelin:
it is bizarre
Dec 9 02:05
strcat:
btw Hans is paid by Calyx, and those are the people he is referring to as having similar experiences
SkewedZeppelin:
common joke is the simulation is running out of memory
strcat:
he is one of them, but portraying them as separate
SkewedZeppelin:
yep: https://gitlab.com/groups/CalyxOS/-/group_members
strcat:
I'm really not okay with this anymore
they behavior involving harassment targeting me is extreme
and all these fabricated stories they tell about me
Hans directly took money from James Donaldson and helped in his takeover attempt
just to be make that clear
this is the lead F-Droid dev
Dec 9 02:06
why do people trust this as a source of apps with how they cover up the serious problems with it and engage in vicious libel campaigns against people who dared to post technical criticism?
SkewedZeppelin: also Wonderfall is not a GrapheneOS dev
Dec 9 02:11
SkewedZeppelin:
ikr
strcat:
that is one of their false claims which they repeatedly post
it's complete bullshit that they do this and yet if I post something about what they are doing, they'll start posting across rooms that I'm insane, engaging in the threats/doxxing, raiding out issue tracker and rooms
Dec 9 02:12
https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1497625862409175041
it's complete bullshit that they do this and yet if I post something about what they are doing, they'll start posting across rooms that I'm insane, engaging in the threats/doxxing, raiding our issue tracker and rooms
Dec 9 02:13
this was in a raid coordinated after I stated that we'll consider adding a warning to the install page for apps with signing keys known to be controlled by people engaging in underhanded malicious attacks
they raided our issue tracker on completely unrelated issues spamming stuff like this
Dec 9 02:14
it was linked from the public F-Droid dev room, where they posted that I'm 'insane' and fabricated stories about me like Hans is doing there
Hans supporting Copperhead and pushing their false narratives after he was paid by them is what's actually unbelievable
I can prove he was paid by them
Dec 9 02:15
he also participated in plagiarism of our PDF Viewer app where they stripped the proper licensing/attribution and that's there as an abandoned app on F-Droid, and is the reason we didn't allow our apps to be packaged by F-Droid previously
has been involved in doing that with other code too
Dec 9 02:16
risen:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Keeping it positive. Loving CalyxOS, DivestOS and F-Droid more and more every day. 🥸
Dec 9 02:53
Tommy:
ah yes back with the virtue signaling and bullshiting again
why can't you just stop being disingenuous for once
Dec 9 03:03
risen:
Fuck off, Tommy
Tommy:
👀
Dec 9 03:04
CaptainPicard:
Woah is that toxicity?
Tommy:
> <@captainpicard:spitetech.com> Woah is that toxicity?
this morning he got called out for being super disingenous
Dec 9 03:05
and he has been doing this for weeks
Dec 9 03:06
risen:
Brought here from GrapheneOS gang. They drag you down to their level if they can. Not responding to your bullshit is another way to put it.
CaptainPicard:
> <@tommy:arcticfoxes.net> and he has been doing this for weeks
Oh I'm well aware
But one reason is for the tOxiC ComMuNitY
Dec 9 03:07
risen:
Doing what, stating my opinion? An opinion further confirmed every day here.
CaptainPicard:
I mean probably shouldn't be going out of your way to antagonize a dev and say things that are plainly untrue if that's your motive
That's not why people have a problem with it
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Fuck off, Tommy
Is not stating your opinion, for instance
Dec 9 03:08
risen:
> ah yes back with the virtue signaling and bullshiting again
> why can't you just stop being disingenuous for once
Bullshit ^
Dec 9 03:09
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> Brought here from GrapheneOS gang. They drag you down to their level if they can. Not responding to your bullshit is another way to put it.
as far as I am concerned you are the guy who tries to drag other people down and make PROVABLY bullshit statements
it's crazy how the people who scream "grapheneos toxic" are usually the most toxic people I can find
Dec 9 03:11
trashing on a legitimately good project and strying to tarnish their reputation while pretending to be holier than thou and caring about privacy/security
Dec 9 03:12
risen:
Yawn
Dec 9 03:13
SkewedZeppelin:
y'all go eat some cookies or something
plz
risen:
What are your core beliefs as GrapheneOS supporters? I really can't figure that one out.
Dec 9 03:14
Tommy:
not hard to see who you really are
risen:
SkewedZeppelin: Do they claim mexe as theirs? What happened previously is unfortunate.
Dec 9 03:15
CaptainPicard:
I care about my privacy and security and they make a product that does a great job of allowing that. What are you looking for me to say? That we suck the devs off?
Actually that's probably it
Dec 9 03:16
Tommy:
^
Dec 9 03:17
ninchuka:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > ah yes back with the virtue signaling and bullshiting again
> > why can't you just stop being disingenuous for once
> Bullshit ^
bruh you start shit then never actually respond you just make BS claims without any proof and hide
Dec 9 03:18
risen:
> GrapheneOS is another sober and credible project that has set out to deliver a secure, open-source, auditable operating system for Android phones.
Sober? I held this back, but assumed they were high. JOKE, mostly
https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/08/19/1058243/erik-prince-wants-to-sell-you-a-secure-smartphone-thats-too-good-to-be-true/
Dec 9 04:28
SkewedZeppelin:
One of these is not like the other
Dec 9 04:30
risen:
Nothing is like it seems
strcat:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> > GrapheneOS is another sober and credible project that has set out to deliver a secure, open-source, auditable operating system for Android phones.
>
> Sober? I held this back, but assumed they were high. JOKE, mostly
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/08/19/1058243/erik-prince-wants-to-sell-you-a-secure-smartphone-thats-too-good-to-be-true/
you really can't resist making endless attacks and spreading endless lies about our project, it's genuinely pathetic
Dec 9 06:25
it's most of your presence in this room
Dec 9 06:26
deimos:
strcat, you're fighting a valiant fight, but i think it's a distraction. the hardest thing to do is to ignore the trolls.
Dec 9 07:01
strcat:
the troll could be banned from here for what they are turning the channel into
and no, it's not a distraction when they have a substantial negative impact on GrapheneOS through these attacks across platforms
this room is one of those platforms where attacks were happening, aimed at gradually harming GrapheneOS, but it's just one little example of it
Dec 9 07:02
due to the substantial impact on the ability to continue the project, a substantial amount of resources will be put into countering it in the future
Dec 9 07:03
qwestion:
strcat: (im not risen) do u let ppl use ur username to write this much? im impressed and genuinely believe the real you is techsavvy, but cant comprehend how u can learn and retain so much info while replying to so many, including critics
Dec 9 07:05
strcat:
no one else uses my accounts
most content from GrapheneOS accounts is from me but they are project accounts not personal accounts
Dec 9 07:06
no one else uses my personal accounts
qwestion:
thats dedication
Dec 9 07:17
risen:
strcat:
> the troll could be banned from here for what they are turning the channel into
> and no, it's not a distraction when they have a substantial negative impact on GrapheneOS through these attacks across platforms
> Treat everyone with respect. Build on each other's ideas. Each of us has the right to enjoy our experience and participate without fear of harassment, discrimination, or condescension, whether blatant or subtle.
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11-grapheneos-code-of-conduct
Dec 9 14:13
Tommy:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> strcat:
> > the troll could be banned from here for what they are turning the channel into
> > and no, it's not a distraction when they have a substantial negative impact on GrapheneOS through these attacks across platforms
>
> > Treat everyone with respect. Build on each other's ideas. Each of us has the right to enjoy our experience and participate without fear of harassment, discrimination, or condescension, whether blatant or subtle.
> https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11-grapheneos-code-of-conduct
Step 1: Harass developers and make endless false claims
Step 2: Pretend to be holier than thou when you get called out for your behavior then throw their CoC at them as if they did anything wrong
Dec 9 18:40
risen:
> "good security" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aad2BuGudnE&t=12295s
He's not wrong about some users wanting less Google, and being OK with sacrifices in security. Similar to how we are using DivestOS on older devices.
Dec 9 18:45
Tommy:
> Step 1: Harass developers and make endless false claims
> Step 2: Pretend to be holier than thou when you get called out for your behavior then throw their CoC at them as if they did anything wrong
I know this is a mantra, but I was here exchanging opinions, long before y'all came along. You've given zero examples of "false claims", and y'all are the harassers here.
Dec 9 18:52
ninchuka:
You start shit then run away 🤣
Dec 9 18:57
risen:
You know it's a waste of time when someone talks about goalposts and calls names.
Dec 9 18:58
ninchuka:
Your describing yourself there pal
Dec 9 19:02
matchboxbananasynergy!:
> <@ninchuka:envs.net> Your describing yourself there pal
you're wasting your time lol
Dec 9 19:03
risen:
ninchuka:
> You start shit then run away 🤣
> Your describing yourself there pal
> About features and code, not the individuals involved
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11-grapheneos-code-of-conduct
ninchuka:
> <@_xmpp_risen=2fdivestos-mobile=40conference.konvers.me:matrix.org> ninchuka:
> > You start shit then run away 🤣
> > Your describing yourself there pal
>
> > About features and code, not the individuals involved
>
> https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11-grapheneos-code-of-conduct
You attack daniel himself and you scream and point at a CoC for another community when you get the same treatement
Grow up and touch grass
Dec 9 19:05
matchboxbananasynergy!:
This has been going on for a very long time
Dude is obsessed
And very direspectful to Tad, constantly de-railing his chatroom and taking shots at another project
Dec 9 19:06
risen:
> Below is our community code of conduct, which applies to our forums, chat rooms, issue trackers, and any other GrapheneOS-supported communication group, as well as any private communication initiated in the context of these spaces. Simply put, community discussions should be the following:
> Respectful and kind
> About GrapheneOS
> About features and code, not the individuals involved
Dec 9 19:09
ninchuka:
Thats for the GoS rooms/forum
Which last I checked
Dec 9 19:12
This isnt part of
Can we please ban risen as a troll already
Dec 9 19:14
risen:
> I care about my privacy and security and they make a product that does a great job of allowing that. What are you looking for me to say? That we suck the devs off?
> Inappropriate sexual content
Dec 9 19:40
SkewedZeppelin:
https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/Simple-File-Manager/issues/619#issuecomment-1344720940
Dec 9 19:51
matchboxbananasynergy!:
that's good, but I don't like that at all
Been an issue at least since august
Dec 9 19:53
SkewedZeppelin:
yep
matchboxbananasynergy!:
and the moment people realize he downplays it first
SkewedZeppelin:
yep
matchboxbananasynergy!:
and now fixes it cause it's hurting his bottom line
SkewedZeppelin:
yeap
matchboxbananasynergy!:
I've lost all faith in him as a dev lol
can't trust him after that personally
maintaining your app shouldn't require people pressuring you for months
it should be a given
Dec 9 19:54
risen:
> I've lost all faith in him as a dev lol
> can't trust him after that personally
I know *exactly* what you mean. Why is it OK for you to say so, but not for me?
Dec 9 19:56
thecast:
because he has valid reasons for holding that position
Dec 9 19:58
SkewedZeppelin:
in one corner we have an app developer 1) with a questionable phone partnership 2) apps without outdated libraries and known security issues 3) including proprietary components willy nilly in direct violation of their contributors copyright
in the other we have the gold standard of aftermarket mobile OS with nearly a decade of demonstrated improvements
matchboxbananasynergy!:
I'm not even going to engage with what risen said, it's obvious they're just trying to bait people in arguing
tbh Tad I don't understand why you put up with it
Dec 9 19:59
risen:
It's OK. Ignoring what you don't want to see is OK. I just point out what looks like double standard. Trust is a personal thing. It's easy to lose.
Dec 9 20:03
> in the other we have the gold standard of aftermarket mobile OS with nearly a decade of demonstrated improvements
> Anybody do something like capture the flag contests on different phone OS?
Dec 9 20:08